MSU Extension Gardening in Michigan

{Abby} Okay folks, so we're gonna get started today. Welcome to Cabin Fever Conversations. As a reminder, if you have any points in time where you have technical difficulties, there's information on the screen about how to connect with the MSU Extension support team for dealing with that. And you can always watch us on the Gardening in Michigan Facebook page. I'm going to go ahead and stop sharing my screen and invite our other speakers. [Isabel] Hey everybody. So today we are talking with David Lowenstein, who is a consumer horticulture educator based out of Macomb County. David's an entomologist by training. And today we are going to be talking about insects in the garden. David, we're really happy to have you here. And we want to start off by asking, what about insects brings you joy? [David] Yeah, so thank you for having me on Cabin Fever Conversations. I'm an outdoors person. I like hiking, I like biking. And insects tend to be outdoors type organisms and things too, we find insects indoors and usually don't like that. So many entomologists sometimes have an idea that they want to be an entomologist, maybe something from their youth. They played with bugs, they learn something about them... for me, it wasn't like that. It was just kind of by chance that I had an opportunity to work with insects. And I learned a lot about the things they do and how they're involved in almost every facet of our lives. Food, Public Health. And I find them a cool system to work with because they're almost everywhere. They come in a lot of different sizes, shapes, colors. And they're just cool to observe when you find one that you haven't seen before. [Isabel} Yeah, I totally agree. Getting a closer look is always, the first step for me. It's like "WHAT is that creature?"! [Abby] So, you know, a lot of folks in our audience have some experience interacting with insects and their gardens. Do you have any thoughts on kind of what approaches people should take to insects and their garden or how should folks approach observing insects and their garden? [David] There are millions of insect species the world. And that doesn't include the ones that haven't been identified yet. So there are a lot of possible insects that you might find. One thing to consider is rather than kill first, ask later. Take a look at what is in the garden and maybe take a picture, observe what the insect is doing. Is it staying on the leaves? Is it on the ground? Are there certain times of day when you notice them more? So when you're looking at insects, you don't need to be a great photographer if you're trying to capture them. Although for ones that are mobile, like butterflies and bees. You probably want to have some speed or stay away because as you approach them, they will fly away. I'm not an insect photographer, so I can't unfortunately give any tips about that today. There are some entomologists that are really good at that. One in particular that comes to mind is Alex Wild. He's a curator at the Entomology Museum at the University of Texas. So take a look at it if you think you find an insect that might be new or you're not sure what it is, there are a lot of places online that you can search for insects or try to find what the insect might be to learn what it is in your garden. And that's the first step, figuring out "who is it?" and learning a bit more about what that insect might be doing. [Abby] I was laughing when you said don't kill first and ask questions later because I think so often we're surprised and our instinct is like "remove it from this space". And I've done that in the past and ended up finding out later that they were incredibly helpful friends. that would have been lifelong friends with my garden and, you know, and really worked in support of my garden dreams. And so just pausing long enough to slow down and observe and see what it's doing there. You can usually tell if that's something that's eating your plant or something that's just hanging out and finding some shelter and home there, you know. [David] I have one exception to that rule. Roaches, if you find roaches do not feel guilty about getting rid of them. That is the one insect I do not like. [Abby] Yah, I don't know if I would stick around and observe them. [Isabel] David, why don't you like them? [David] So I grew up in an apartment in New York City. And roaches are something that affect people from all socioeconomic backgrounds they're in the fanciest building on Park Avenue, they're in the tenements in the South Bronx. And they're big, they're scary, they're annoying. And I would actually pay my brothers to hit them with the shoe So I wouldn't have to be the oneto kill them. I do not like them. [Isabel] I grew up in Florida and we had palmetto bugs which are like the flying cockroaches. And I can still feel my stomach sink when I think about a flying cockroach! [David] Oh, sorry to have grossed anyone out today. I think that much of the rest of the conversation will be a lot more positive. Cool. [Abby]I get it out of the way. [Isabel] Yeah. Because we actually want to ask about, I think the term we hear a lot is "beneficial insects". So I was wondering if you could speak to that. Who are kind of the good guys in the garden. And why? [David] So a beneficial insect means that it does something that is positive. So we think of insects that eat our plants. Maybe they feed on clothes or they feed on food in our pantry. But the majority of insects are neither beneficial nor bad. They're just hanging out...looking for a place to stay, some shelter and looking for something to eat. Though those are okay to have the ones that are really good to have the beneficial ones. So insects that might feed on other insects. So things that feed on aphids or feed on other herbivores. There are also pollinators. I believe there was a previous episode where you learned about those. So anything that helps pollinate plants. So beneficial insects can come in a variety of different types. And I want to just share a couple with two slides about beneficial insects because this will help you determine what the insect might be. So I'm going to share my screen. And if you could confirm that it's visible with just a yes, that would be great. [Abby] not yet. [David] Okay. Let me try one more thing. I think it should work. Absolutely see it. Yes, excellent. So this is probably the most academic thing I'll show today. So there are two main ways that insects mature through their life. And this is a good way to figure out what the insect might be, which type of beneficial insects. So there are insects that go through what's called gradual or simple metamorphosis. And this is where the hashes an egg and they hatch from an egg rather. And they turn into a little insect larva. And they get bigger and bigger and bigger until they reach their adult life stage. So as an adult they have wings, they can fly, they can reproduce. So these tend to be soft bodied insects that would be in this category. And then there are things that go through complete metamorphosis. So they hatch from an egg into a larva, and that larva looks nothing at all like the adults, then it'll turn into a pupa or cocoon if it's a butterfly, and then something completely different. So the insects in this type of group, are typically beetles, bees, wasps are also within there. A lot of the bad guys are often simple metamorphosis, things like aphids, thrips, and soft bodied insects. So there's beneficials in two categories. There's the predators, things like lady beetles, beetles that we're most familiar with. But there's another group that's really unique and probably the most abundant of all beneficial insects. And these are called parasitoids. So parasitoid is something that lives part of its life, either within or just outside of another insect. So these are two examples. This is a wasp that lays its eggs inside the larva of some caterpillar. The caterpillar continues to feed for a little bit, but there's an egg of this wasp within, and it hatches. It gets bigger and it kills the caterpillar in the process while develops, and out from this caterpillar might pop out one or many of these wasps. These parasitoids can also lay eggs within the eggs of other insects. So this is the 'samurai wasp' (Trissolcus japonicus). One that I spent a few years working on, and it lays a single egg inside stink bug eggs. So from an egg mass of 28 stink bug eggs, you can get 28 wasps popping out of them. So there are about a 100 thousand species of wasps in the world. And most of these are parasitoids. So there's parasitoids that specialize on horn worms. There's parasitoids that attack maggots, parasitoids of aphids, thrips, almost every insect has some type of little wasp that wants to lay its eggs within that other insects eggs or its larvae. [Abby] I'm remembering a picture I saw from my friend's garden last year of a tomato horn worm that had had a parasitic wasp than it was still alive while the eggs where I like hanging out on it and then the wasps all hatched and immediately feed on that horn worm. But it's a pretty, I mean, it's wonderful because horn worms are really detrimental to our tomato plants. But it also just feels like something out of another world. [David] It would make for a great sci-fi movie. Not a good ending for the the insect that's getting killed, but a unique way to control other insects. [Isabel] So we were also curious if you could speak to things that people can do to kind of support is beneficial insects in the garden. [David] Yeah, there are a couple ways to help beneficial insects. So insects need two things. They need food and they need a place to live. So for food, many beneficial insects, if they don't have their host, the insect that they're feeding on or they're attacking. They can also use nectar as a source of energy. So the same types of strategies for helping pollinators can be use to help beneficial insects. So including plants that have nectar within them. And planting different types of native plants that bloom at different points in the growing season. So there are a lot of plants that look nice and keep their color for awhile, like petunias and begonias. But those are almost like a wax apple to a beneficial insect because there's not a lot of energy they can get from that. Those have been bred for showiness often at the expense of nectar production. There are some people that put companion plants which might draw in beneficial insects. There's a fair amount of myth and there's also some truth to that. It really depends on the, on the plant species and how big the system is. So on a commercial scale, putting in flowers around the edge of a field, if you're a farmer, that absolutely is going to. An impact because in a landscape where there's not a lot of places for insects to find food that can be really beneficial. If you're just bringing in one potted plant next to your garden, don't expect that that's going to lead to a dramatic increase. But there are a couple of examples I wanted to share of companion planting that can be useful. So adding a basil near tomatoes can be helpful for reducing thrips and horn worms. Within Brassica crops, things like Brussels sprouts or cauliflower. If you put sage or mint or dill nearby, that can help repel some of the cabbage worms species that on those. And sweet alyssum is another plant that's good to put in your garden because that is a good plant for hover flies. And hover flies are a double bonus for beneficial insects because the hover fly as an adult is a pollinator and as a larva. The hover fly feeds on soft bodied insects. So it's a predator, both a predator and a pollinator. [Abby] And I'm also remembering we had a conversation last year with Kelsey Graham talking about wild bees and wild pollinators and some of the ways to help cultivate them in your garden. And a lot of it was leaving sort of plant matter around for habitat, right? Not necessarily feeling like as soon as, as soon as things turn from your perfect ripeness to a little bit past their prime, not necessarily pulling out plants and removing all that debris. So leaving habitat, does that stay true for a lot of the insects that you're speaking up as well. [David] You're asking about leaving... [Abby] just like kind of leaving more of that leaf matter and that plant material in your garden, rather than striving for that perfectly cleared garden at the end of the year. [David] Okay. Thank you for clarifying. And that's an appropriate question for now, because people are starting their spring clean-ups and wondering what to do. In general, leaving an undisturbed corner or someplace in your garden is a good thing because insects need a place to hide if there's only direct sun, That's not an optimal habitat for most of them, there's beneficial insects that live in the ground and are only active at night. So having some bare soil in an area like in your flower bed and not mulching the whole thing can be helpful or just leaving a patch a little messy because that complexity of habitat can help multiple types of beneficial insects. One comment about garden cleanup is that really there's one type of beneficial insect that is most affected by cleaning your garden too early compared to others, and that will be cavity nesting bees. So I know this is polinators and I don't to want to stray too much into that. But those cavity nesting bees are nesting in the stems of plants potentially. And if you cut down your plants that might have open stems too soon, then you might be eradicating or getting rid of the nest of a cavity nesting bee. But for, for many insects if you're doing light garden work cleaning leaves off the ground, moving brush. It's not likely to have any major impact to a beneficial insect unless you're going deep in the soil a few inches like you're doing early telling because a number of insects do spend the winter either as cocoons or as adults underground because that soil is warmer than the air temperature. So if you're doing a lot of disturbance to the soil, that's something you might want to wait a couple extra weeks more so you don't damage those over-wintering insects. Just working at the surface would not have as much of a negative impact. [Abby] Yeah, it's a really good tip because I know it's like the first few days of above 60 degrees and everyone's pretty eager to get out there and just waiting a little bit of extra time. Because realistically we can't plant anything right now anyway outside, or not that much. Can you give us some tips on noticing damage from non beneficial insects, do you have any tips on how if you're in your garden and observing insects, how to kind of distinguish the ones that are good versus bad. For putting simplistic terms on it. [David] That's a tough one to answer. So often you don't notice them, the bad insects until you see that the damage. So you might see leaves that looks skeletonized and full of holes. Or perhaps the leaf is missing completely overnight, which might happen from larger caterpillars. And the presence of an insect on a plant itself does not mean that it's a pest (or) It's a bad insect. It could just be incidental that it's an insect landing on there or it could be something beneficial. That's looking to hunt. A number of insect pests tend to be small. So things like aphids, thrips, really tiny, microscopic, and there's not a lot of beneficial insects that, that look like them. But the most common types of beneficial insects you'll find in your garden are things like lady beetles or lacewings. You might find ground beetles too. So if you see anything that would fit into that category, generally good insect. [Abby] Yeah. And I think that the tip about noticing where there is damage too, is a good one, right? Because if they're just hanging out and not doing much of anything, they're probably fine to leave alone. And I had a really bad infestation of a bean beetle in my garden last year. And of course, the first sign is all of the leaves kind of turn to that lace. And then you flip them over and you start to see what kind of bugs are there. And then you learn which ones, which ones to maybe avoid the next year. I didn't learn. I kept planting beans in the same place, and having the same bugs, but I did notice some helpful beneficial insects along the way. [David] Crop rotation. Is a good thing to do is when you plant the same crops or plants year after year, the, the pests that feed on them, if they spend the winter in Michigan, we're going to spend the winter near the, in the area near those plants. And once they come out and emerge from the groundwater, that's June, July, August, Like a squash vine borer, To add a human side to it, It'll think "I found some squash again, this is great! I don't have to search elsewhere in the neighborhood for it." But even though I say that, I'm still guilty of growing squashes every year because I like squash. So it is just something to be prepared for. Knowing when some of the pests might arrive and what some of the beneficial insects could be relying on them as a form of natural pest control? [Abby] Yes, or our naive optimism every year and like, "this is the year I'm gonna be on top of it." but it never turns out that way. [Isabel] Abby, I'm kind of happy you didn't get rid of the beams because I got to see that the bean beatle this year because of it. They're very odd-looking little pupae. So David, I know you touched on, don't kill and then ask questions. Are there any other places where people could go wrong? It could be for pest control or when approaching insects in the garden trying to support them. [David] So sometimes there are people who approach me with questions of how do I kill this? What's the best insecticide to use? And I do want to apologize, there's a dog in my neighbor's yard and I can't do anything about... if you hear that... So people will say, what's, what chemical can I use to, to kill this? Or how do I get rid of this insect? Sometimes that is the correct thing to do. If the damage is high enough that if you don't do anything, you're going to lose your plant. There's something called an, an economic threshold. There's a level at which if you don't do anything, then there's going to be a lot more damage and it's going to cost money. Usually we apply that to people who are growing food for, for farm sale or for commercial growers. But that can apply in your home garden too, because after a certain stage, if you let the plant go too far, you're not gonna get any fruit, you're not gonna get any foliage that, um, that you can, can eat. So the first one thing to know is preventative strategies for stopping the pests in the first place. And that might involve floating row covers. So you keep the pests away from the, the plant, rather than giving them easy access to the plant or just knowing what is out there. So it's very hard to say I can guarantee this beneficial insect will come and feed on a pest. Do x, y, and z, because it all depends on what the conditions are. Some insects are able to move a mile or two or more. There are some like these tiny parasitoid wasps that may only move a 100 feet a day maximum. So if you don't have if you have a big yard and you have a small garden, and it's just surrounded by a quarter acre of turf grass, for instance, it's going to be tough to, to draw in beneficial insects. So keeping habitat that has native plants or has plants with nectar and an area for these beneficial insects to stay when they can't find, find their food that they want to feed on is something that's most critical. [Abby] So we are wondering if you can share some tips on overcoming fear of insects. So I know a lot of folks have just kind of that knee jerk Like it's a, it's an insect, it's a bug, kill it, reaction. And maybe some kids to do you have any tips for how you built a better relationship with insects or how you've seen kind of folks overcome some of those fear reactions? [David] You know, if you can start young, don't only read books that portray negative things about insects. And so I have two young kids at home. as I read a number of their books, there's actually a lot of insect characters that are doing good in their book. So it's nice to see that portrayed. And when you see something out there, instead of the, the ick factor, maybe step back a bit and observe what it's doing. Because the vast majority of insects in our communities are not out to hurt us. Mosquitoes might be one exception because that's how they feed. But we'll leave mosquitoes out of the question. Most insects just want to eat another insect or they wants to eat a plant. They don't want to hurt people. They don't pose much of a risk to us. And that's true for those big cicada killer wasps or other large wasps that we have an area too. So I take a lot of risks because I'm an entomologist, I want to see things up close. So when I see a cicada killer, the first one of the season, come and try and catch it in a jar. Not something that I would recommend necessarily. But if it's something that doesn't sting, you know, catch it in a vial or jar to get a closer look at it to see what it actually looks like. Because we have a number of insects that really beautiful and have iridescent colors. But you might not notice until you look closely to them. So learning what it is about what's in the area. And if you are around someone who is very anti insect, maybe trying to understand more, you know, you, you said that this is nasty seeing this bug, but what's so nasty about the aphid on the plant? From the perspective of the plant. Yeah, it's bad for the plant. But wow, why is it so bad? Because some people do have phobias and not a mental health professional. I can't cure those. Um, but when people learn more about why insects are in an area and what they're doing and that they're not a direct threat to us, for the most part. I think it leads to better understanding about that. Another trick that'll be really cool if you become somewhat of an expert in bees is trying to pet a bee... So one thing about these is that only the females stain. So if you reach a level where you can distinguish between a male and female, and that is possible to distinguish them just with your eyes going out and trying to pet especially bumblebee, the very soft and fuzzy. Now I take the risk and do it with some of the females because they're for the most part they're really docile. They're not likely to sting you unless you ground them and trying to harm them. But they might be in a plant. And just like some people like to pet dogs... I'm a strange entomologist that likes to pet bees. [Abby] I try to pet the praying manti in my garden but they don't they don't let me get too close. They get up and go into attack position so I can understand that eagerness to pet And I also feel like we need a disclaimer here to get to know b is before you try and try and to pet them too much! [David] I would agree with that. So beatles, lacewings. Lot, a lot of insects don't sting or harm. Yes, wasps and bees, Be very careful, but it's a really cool party trick if you, if you want to do that. [Abby] I'm trying to imagine what parties that would occur at, but with COVID, we're in wierd times. [David] socially distanced, outdoor parties with flowers. {Isabel] Yeah. I got you. "I'm petting the BEE". [Abby] Yeah. I think one of the things that has helped me on this last year is just slowing down to observe, like you said earlier, being in a space last year when I was just sending a lot more time in my garden and just observing insects in general do their natural things. You start to see them like hop and do, do cute, if I daresay, cute and interesting things in the garden. And that helps build a different relationship with them because you see them as more than just this hard shelled, creepy-crawly. You see them as like, oh, "you have your own quirks and characteristics and like ways of surviving in the world." [David] Yep, and the way that insects move is another good way to distinguish them. So that when you think about it, when you said hop, for example, grasshoppers and crickets, they have very big legs. On their hind legs, the back most one, whereas praying mantises, they have very big legs in the front. So different features of insects or the length of their antenna up the two things on their head can be a way to, to distinguish them very easily, right when you see them. Yep. [Isabel] So David, do you have a favorite insect? [David] I do. And I made sure to put up a picture of it because I think it's a really cool one. So let me bring it up one more time. And this is an insect that is probably found in every single community in and Michigan. Despite the fact that this picture is from Missouri. This is a Virescent Green Sweat Bee. so scientific name Agapostemon. That's the genus. But this is a tiny bee that visits small flowers including weeds, things like chickory, dandelion, asters. And it's this shiny green bee, that you'd think. This has to be something tropical, but we have it in Michigan in almost every habitat. From a vacant lot in the inner city to a lake side up North, or a suburban area, or on the side of the road, you will find green bees in almost every place in Michigan, really common, really beautiful bee. [Isabel] I do appreciate that iridescence. it reminds me of tiger beetles, I think they're called, which is like one that I always like, "Oh, I want to get a closer look" and then you have to run and then they move quickly. And I want to chase them. And we have a tortoise beetles as well. And there's dog bane beetles which are really colorful. So there's a couple different types of beetles that are, are shiny and, and cool. [Abby} So I think this is a good transition plan to answer some of our audience questions. It's that's good with you, David. There are so many questions. Somebody share the need for birds to managing insect populations and not just jumping to killing them because they are part of such a larger food system and web. So I appreciate that reminder. We had a couple of questions about timing. You mentioned some of the like pausing to clean up yard debris and some of those those hollow stem things. I'm wondering if you have any tips for when might be the right time to start cleaning up your old tall grasses and cleaning up debris. To kind of both support growing in your garden and support beneficial insects populations. [David] There's not a, a set date. That's best to do that, but there are two things I'll comment about that question. So one, if you are cleaning up brush that does have open holes in it that bees might nest in then just take a look at it quickly. If you see that it's sealed off, with something that looks like mud or leaves, that's probably a sign that there is a B that hasn't emerged yet. Maybe leave that individual area alone. But bees start to emerge Typically, at least in Southern Michigan, sometime between mid to late March and mid April. That's one of the earliest cavity nesting bees and will emerge. So if, if you're waiting to do your garden clean up until sometime in mid or late April, you should be fine by, by that point, because the earliest bees that nest in cavities will have started emerging in and looking for flowers. Now if you, if you are out and you start seeing things that are not honey bees, but other types of bees that are, that are out and visiting flowers, that probably means that it's okay to do your guard and clean up. And at that point because the bees are starting to emerge. [Abby] And part of that too is like, for me, it's taking my garden and small bits like I want to plant beans in mid April in a lot of cases and so I can choose the parts of my garden that have less of that kind of hollow stem stuff to start and then slowly work my way around. And that's a different approach than I had maybe four or five years ago where I was eager to like, make the whole thing fresh and just have my blank canvas, right? So some of it is just kind of shifting, shifting your practices slightly. [Isabel] Another question. Going back to that picture you showed of the parasitoid wasp with the stink bugs. Audience member wanted to know if those are in Michigan, this parasitoid wasps. [David} So yes, they they are. So the Brown Marmorated stink bug is not native to the United States. It's been in the US since the mid 90s, Michigan since the mid 20 tens. And this samurai wasp is also non native to the US. So scientists have been working to study it in a lab setting for couple of years. They wanted to know if you bring in a new species to control something that's also not native, you want to make sure you're not doing more harm than good. So that's strictly regulated. takes a lot of years to get the right permits and answer questions. But while that was happening, this tiny wasp arrived anyway, so that sped the process up. And it was found in a couple states out west and east. And it was found that Michigan believe in 2018. And there is an entomologist and the Department of Entomology in East Lansing who was working to distribute this parasitoid in a couple of key parts of the state where they grow fruit and also in Southeast Michigan so that it will help reduce populations of the brown marmorated stink bug. The goal of what's called biological control, using a good insect to manage a bad insect is usually not complete eradication. It's trying to keep the, the bad insect a level that's low enough that it's not likely to cause damage. So if you wanted to learn more about that insect, there have been a couple MSU news articles about the samurai wasp And it's released within Michigan and you could search on those on the MSU Extension webpage. [Abby] So I, I want to ask about one of my favorite insects in the garden, which is the mantids. And we had a question about if you could just speak to kinda where they fall on that spectrum because I think some folks have heard them get a good rap and some folks have heard them get a bad rap. [David] So we have a species of praying mantis that's native to Michigan. And they're also, there's also another species that is not native and that's probably where the confusion arises because there are insectories where you can buy mantids and release them. And mantids are not a species that, that moves very well. They like to stay still and they like to stalk their prey and wait for them until they come. Also not good if you're a male praying mantis, but that's a complete side story that we don't have to get into unless, unless you want to. So you can distinguish which mantid it is based on appearance. I'm not familiar offhand with what some of the features are to distinguish that non-Native mantis from the mantis that's present in Michigan. But usually mantids, which is the plural of mantis are found in such low numbers that they're not a reliable source of control of bad insects. If you have one, that's great, leave it alone, let it do its thing and feed on some of the insects that you don't want in your area. But it's going to be pretty hard to try and get a good population of mantids built up and not very reliable either for keeping bad insects in check. Whether you have the non native mantid or whether you have the mantid that is native to Michigan. They're both okay and they can get the job done. But when you can don't release something that's not native to to our system. {Abby} They can get their mediocre job of controlling insects done. It sounds like they're not, you know, I know a couple of years ago I started noticing a bunch of mantis egg sacs on some of the T posts that I use in my garden, those like metal T posts that of course I just didn't clean up my garden fast enough. And that's one of the things that has given me pause before clearing everything at the end of the season or doing too much early on in the season is noticing those forming on some of my more robust weeds at the end of the season. [David] You might also notice cocoons doing that as well. If you find a cocoon in the ground when you're doing cleanup. it might move a little bit when you find it. Just put it right back down on the ground and they'll emerge when the conditions are are warm enough. That's not a problem if you accidentally take something out of the ground or find eggs that you didn't mean to disturb. Best thing to do is leave them alone if it's something that's going to be beneficial. Yeah. [Isabel] There was a question that came in about the Cicada Killers. And this person was just curious. They see these wasps carrying the cicadas. Are they feeding on the cicadas or what is going on there and are they parallelizing them and laying egg in them? [David] Yup, So they are a parasitoid. Probably the largest parasitoid species that we have locally. So like that tiny wasp I showed that attacks stink bugs. The cicada killer It buzzes around and looks for a cicada. And when it finds one, it has this big stinger that it stings the cicada with, and that paralyzes it so can't move. And then it has to drag the cicada that's the same sizes it, or sometimes bigger, all the way back to its nest. And it lays an egg on the outside of the cicada, which is still alive. kind of in a refrigerated zombie state. And as that cicada killer egg hatches into a larva it will feed on the cicada. So very bad news for the cicada, but good for the cicada killer. And you might see these mounds of soil or dirt appear in your yard in July and August and then come up pretty quickly because they're from cicada killers. The best thing to do is just leave them alone. Cicada killers might buzz around your head if you come too close to their nest. But I have not heard of anyone who has been stung by a cicada killer. You'd have to reach your hand into the nest. If you wanted to get stung. Beyond that, you can go pretty close to them and it might buzz around you. But they, I will call them a neutral insect. They can attack a few cicadas, but not of any concern to us. [Isabel] Yeah. So I also was wondering if he wanted to speak about any sort of invasive or non-beneficial insects that people should maybe be on the lookout for. The, the main one that I would keep an eye out for is the spotted lanternfly. So that is an insect that's native to Southeast Asia. And it's been found in parts of the mid Atlantic and the Northeast, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland. And not a good insect to have because it feeds on the sap of trees and grapes and apples, and it stresses those plants. So vineyard owners now have to spray insecticides multiple times in a season to keep their plants alive. So something that has a higher cost for management, there are also a nuisance to homeowners because they can aggregate in the hundreds or thousands in the fall and they release honeydew because they feed on the sap the same way the aphids do. The honeydew falls down, it coats things in this sticky substance, and it can be a substrate for sitting molds to grow so we can stain decks and lead to unsightly appearances. It's not known to be in Michigan yet, but it's probably just a matter of time. So if if you're planning to travel to Pennsylvania, or out East by vehicle or RV, definitely check your car before you return back. Or if you know someone that's coming, tell them to keep an eye on them. Because when they do arrive in Michigan, it's going to be a challenge to control them. So if you find something that looks like it shouldn't belong, that's when you should report an invasive species either to MSU Extension , MDARD or the Midwest Invasive Species Network? [Abby] Yeah, It's hard to think of. I feel like we get a lot of messages about all these new invasive species that are threatening, invasive insect communities that are threatening some of our our species are trees. What have you? I don't hear the same kind of level of good news coming out about like, look at this beneficial insect that's growing in population. Is there any of that news that folks can watch for? [David] Well, we do have beneficial insects that, that aren't native too. So there are a couple types of pollinators that aren't native to the areas. And there's the Asian lady beetle, which is good and bad because the multispotted Asian lady beetle was released by the Department of Agriculture in the 60s to manage soybean aphids. It did a really good job at that, and it feeds on a lot aphids, but it also outcompetes the native lady beetles that we have. So if you're wondering why you don't see as many native lady beetles species, probably because of the multispotted Asian lady beetle. But a good story too is that there are some beneficial insects that can do quite well if the right flowers or the right habitat is protected for them. And this is the story outside of Michigan. But there is a federally listed endangered bumblebee. And one of my colleagues who's based in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul MN) area He finds this bee regularly in St. Paul on certain types of plants like bee balm and plants that have flowers like bee balm. So when you're trying to attract beneficial insects, you want include flowers that aren't all the same type, some that have long tube, some that are short. So you try to get the most bang for your buck and getting good insects. Well, you can have good insects that do Okay in areas that might seem to be a surprise for them. [Abby} Yeah, that reminds me last year when we talks about attracting beneficial pollinators and variety of different pollinators about just the need to, to plant things that bloom at a variety of time periods and that are beneficial at different stages of life. And just kind of having that diverse senior burden. I think so often folks want that like one-stop-shop of what is the one plant I need to plants to attract the right ones to my garden. And so much of it as just uplifting that diversity, right? And making sure that a variety of things they have to feed on and nest in at different times of the year. [David] If you are only restricted to one or two, pick ones that are known to attract bees and other beneficial insects and there are a couple of resources online that let you know what is an attractive plant for beneficial insects. [Abby] We'll make sure to share a lot of that afterwards. [Isabel} Yeah, because we did get a few questions about plant species selection and we have a lot of resources on planting for pollinators and we'll follow up with those. So I think go ahead, David. [David} I was going to share one thing about cicadas that came to mind. We talked about cicada killers. but because I started seeing again another surge of cicadas in the news that happened a few months back. And I think it's a good thing when they're in the news because it means that it's probably a slower news day. and given everything going on in the world. I'm okay with that. With the resurgence of cicada information So there there is this brood of cicada "Brood 10", which is going to have its emergence this year. So there are species of cicadas that come out every year. There are species of cicadas that take 17 years. Or 13 years to emerge, and they just spend their lives. This nymphs, the immature stage feeding on roots and hanging out in the soil. But I've seen a number of articles that Michigan's going to see, the 17 year cicada. That's really not quite accurate. Some of Michigan will but only the far South eastern part of Michigan. So if you live in some of the counties near Ohio or Indiana, or maybe even up to Ann Arbor. You might probably here rather than see the 17 year cicada. But for the rest of the state, you'll still get cicadas. You'll just be hearing the regular annual cicadas that come out every year. [Isabel] Yeah, thanks for that. There was a question that came in as well. I think we are going to wrap things up now. David, thank you so much for being here. This was really fun. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and grateful that you joined us. [David] Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure to bug out about insects. [Abby] Ahhh! You did it! I was trying so hard to come up with a good pun. We got it. I'm wondering if we could just end with asking you what you're looking forward to in the 2021 gardening season and it can be insect related or otherwise. But what, what are you really looking forward to about this upcoming gardening season? [David] Two things. So last year I grew sunflowers for the first time. And they grew and they went into ten feet. And I was really excited. Of course, they fell down after a rainstorm. So I want to do the same thing, but stake it better. And I'm going to try growing carrots this year. I have not done that before. So we'll see if that's successful because that's something I can put in the ground pretty early in the season. [Abby] Nice. We wish you success with both of those. Sunflowers are one of those I love in my garden because I feel like, especially when they get to that 10 foot high, you can't dead head them very easily or anything like that. So they're just kind of grounds for so much activity. I saw tons of bees on them last year. I saw gold finches on them. I saw monarchs on them. They were just like this catch-all for a bunch of really exciting gardening activities. So I hope your giant sunflowers do well this year. All right, Well folks, we're going to wrap it up for today. I know there are some questions about lists of beneficial insects or knowing more about which ones are, which ones you want and which ones you don't. I think it's so interesting. good/ bad binary we have because it all depends, right? And I think about this with weeds to so much of it is just what are you trying to cultivate in your garden. We'll share some resources to help identify which ones you might want to support and which ones you might want to look out for. We're really excited for our conversation next week at 1230 PM. Next Friday, we have a guest host our colleague, Naim Edwards, who was a featured guest on Cabin Fever Conversations last year is going to guest host a conversation with some of his community partners doing work around land access in Detroit. So we're really excited for that one and we hope you'll join us next Friday at 1230. And until then, I hope you all have a great weekend. Enjoy the sunny weather, at least here in mid Michigan, and we'll see you next week. Thank you so much, David. My pleasure. All right. Take care, everyone. Bye, everybody.